Summit Baptist University

A Response to the Kirk Cameron Podcast: Annihilationism vs. Eternal Conscious Torment

By Dr. Jeff Paschall

As many of you have seen, there has been a great debate that has taken place over the last few weeks over the recent discussion on The Kirk Cameron Show when the question of what does eternity look like for a non-believer, and the debate was between two viewpoints called Annihilationism and the other Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT). Before engaging in the arguments, let’s define the terms clearly:

• Annihilationism (Conditional Immortality): The belief that the wicked will ultimately—ceasing to exist—rather than suffering eternally.
• Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT): The belief that the wicked will suffer consciously and eternally in hell.

One of the most frustrating aspects of the podcast was the lack of balance. The conversation leaned heavily toward Annihilationism, with little defense offered for ECT. To be clear, I do not believe this is a salvation issue. A Christian may hold to Annihilationism and still be saved. Yet misinterpreting the doctrine of hell and eternity can be deeply damaging—both to believers and to unbelievers. A misunderstanding of hell diminishes the gravity of sin, the holiness of God, and the urgency of the gospel.  With that said, I will do my best to present as accurately as I can both sides of the argument, with the understanding that I believe in ECT. 

At the same time, I commend Kirk Cameron for wrestling honestly with Scripture. He was not dismissive but genuinely searching. That is good. We must always ask questions, dig deeper, and seek answers in God’s Word. Disagreement between Christians should never silence inquiry. On the contrary, it should drive us back to Scripture.

With that spirit, let us examine the arguments for Annihilationism presented in the podcast and respond biblically.

1. Finite Sin Cannot Merit Infinite Punishment

Annihilationist Argument:
Our sins are committed in time and therefore finite. Even if we sinned every day of our lives, it would still be limited. Thus, eternal punishment seems harsh and unjust.

Scripture Support Used by Annihilationist’s:

• Romans 6:23 — “The wages of sin is death…”
• Ezekiel 18:4 — “The soul who sins shall die.”
• Psalm 37:20 — “The wicked perish… they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.”
• Isaiah 1:28 — “Rebels and sinners shall be broken together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.”

Rebuttal (ECT):
This argument assumes that the quantity of sin determines the severity of punishment. But Scripture teaches that the seriousness of sin is not measured by its duration, but by the One sinned against. The gap between God’s infinite holiness and man’s devastating sin is immeasurable. To argue that the crime does not fit the punishment is to misunderstand both the greatness of God’s holiness and the depth of human depravity.

God’s Holiness

• Isaiah 6:3 — “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory!”
• Leviticus 11:44 — “For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy.”
• 1 Samuel 2:2 — “There is none holy like the Lord; there is none besides You; there is no rock like our God.”
• Revelation 4:8 — “Day and night they never cease to say, ‘Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!’”
• Psalm 99:9 — “Exalt the Lord our God, and worship at His holy mountain; for the Lord our God is holy!”

Man’s Sin

• Romans 3:23 — “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
• Isaiah 59:2 — “Your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God…”
• Genesis 6:5 — “Every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
• Jeremiah 17:9 — “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick.”
• Ephesians 2:1–3 — “You were dead in the trespasses and sins… by nature children of wrath.”

Even in human courts, the timeframe of a crime does not determine its punishment. Pulling a trigger may take only a second, but the consequence is life imprisonment or death. The gravity of the act—not its duration—determines the sentence. Likewise, sin against an infinitely holy God warrants eternal consequence.

Takeaway:
Annihilationism argues that finite sin should not equal eternal punishment. ECT suggest sinning against a holy God is the greatest offense imaginable, and therefore eternal punishment is just. The crime fits the punishment.

The debate over hell is not peripheral—it touches the holiness of God, the seriousness of sin, and the urgency of salvation. While Annihilationism appeals to human notions of fairness, Scripture consistently points to eternal conscious torment as the true consequence of sin against an infinitely holy God.

2. Eternity Is Only for Believers

Annihilationist Argument:
Annihilationist’s claim that Scripture speaks of eternity only in terms of believers. Eternal life is promised to those who trust in Christ, while unbelievers simply perish.

Scripture Support Used by Annihilationist’s:

• John 3:16 — “Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
• Romans 2:7 — Eternal life is given to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality.
• 1 Timothy 6:16 — God “alone has immortality.”
• 2 Timothy 1:10 — Christ “brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”

Rebuttal (ECT):
Eternal life is indeed a positive gift of joy in God’s presence, but Scripture also makes clear that unbelievers exist eternally in punishment. The contrast is not between existence and non‑existence, but between eternal life and eternal condemnation.

Scripture Support for ECT:

• John 5:29 — “Those who have done good will rise to life, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.” Both groups are resurrected to eternal destinies.
• Daniel 12:2 — “Some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.” Both are everlasting.
• 2 Thessalonians 1:9 — “They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord.”
• 2 Timothy 4:1 — Christ will judge the living and the dead, assigning eternal destinies.
• 2 Peter 2:9 — “The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment.”
• Philippians 1:23 — Paul longs to depart and be with Christ, highlighting the eternal contrast between presence with Christ and separation from Him.

Takeaway:
The Bible presents two eternal paths: one to eternal life, the other to eternal death. There is no third option, no middle ground, no temporary punishment. Eternity belongs to both believers and unbelievers—one in joy, the other in judgment.

3. Death, Perish, and Destroy Mean Extinction?

Annihilationist Argument:
Annihilationist’s argue that biblical terms describing the fate of the wicked—death, perish, destroy—mean literal extinction. They claim these words imply non‑existence.

Scripture Support Used by Annihilationist’s:

• Matthew 10:28 — “Fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
• 2 Peter 2:6 — Sodom and Gomorrah were “reduced to ashes,” serving as an example.
• Philippians 3:19 — “Their end is destruction.”
• Psalm 92:7 — “Though the wicked sprout like grass… they are doomed to destruction forever.”
• Obadiah 1:16 — “They shall be as though they had never been.”

Rebuttal (ECT):
CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT…Context is critical. In Scripture, “death” often means separation from God, not annihilation. “Destroy” means ruin—the loss of original purpose—not non‑existence.

Illustration:
If I throw a coffee mug to the ground and it shatters into 500 pieces, the mug is destroyed. But does it cease to exist? No—it still exists, though its original purpose is ruined. Likewise, when Scripture speaks of the soul being destroyed, it means the soul’s purpose of worshiping and communing with God is utterly ruined, not that the soul ceases to exist.

Additional Example:
Consider Jesus’ death. Did He cease to exist? No. As James 2:26 explains, “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.” Jesus’ body died, but His spirit remained alive. Death does not equal non‑existence.

Scripture Support for ECT:

• Luke 16:23–24 — The rich man is conscious in torment after death, showing death ≠ extinction.
• Revelation 14:11 — “The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night.”
• Matthew 10:28 — “Destroy both soul and body in hell” = ruin under judgment, not annihilation.

Takeaway:
The terms “death,” “perish,” and “destroy” do not mean extinction. They describe separation from God and ruin under judgment. The wicked continue to exist, but in a state of eternal devastation and torment.

4. Eternal Punishment: Permanency or Ongoing Torment?

Annihilationist Argument:
Annihilationist’s claim that “eternal punishment” refers to the permanence of death, not the duration of torment. In their view, eternal punishment means irreversible annihilation—the result lasts forever, even if the process is not ongoing.

Scripture Support Used by Annihilationist’s:

• Hebrews 9:27 — “It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.”
• Malachi 4:1 — “The day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and evildoers will be stubble.”
• Isaiah 66:24 — “Their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched.” (interpreted as permanent destruction, not ongoing torment).
• Matthew 7:13 — “The way is broad that leads to destruction.”

Rebuttal (ECT):
Scripture explicitly describes eternal punishment as ongoing, conscious torment. The word eternal (aionios) is consistently used for both eternal life and eternal punishment. If eternal life is unending joy, eternal punishment must be unending judgment.

Scripture Support for ECT:

• Matthew 25:46 — “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” The parallel is unmistakable.
• Revelation 20:10 — “They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” This is not a one‑time event but continuous torment.
• Revelation 14:11 — “The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night.” The language of “no rest” shows ongoing suffering.

Takeaway:
Eternal punishment is not simply permanent extinction. It is ongoing, conscious torment. The permanence lies not in the result of annihilation but in the unending reality of judgment.

5. God’s Character and Eternal Torment

Annihilationist Argument:
Annihilationist’s argue that eternal torment misrepresents God’s mercy and love. They believe ending the existence of the wicked is more consistent with God’s compassion.

Scripture Support Used by Annihilationist’s:

• Psalm 103:8–9 — “The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love. He will not always chide, nor will He keep His anger forever.”
• Isaiah 25:8 — “He will swallow up death forever.”
• Lamentations 3:31–33 — “The Lord will not cast off forever… He does not willingly afflict or grieve the children of men.”
• Micah 7:18 — “Who is a God like you, pardoning iniquity… He does not retain His anger forever.”

Rebuttal (ECT):
God’s mercy is indeed abundant, but His mercy is offered in Christ. Rejecting Christ leaves only eternal judgment. Justice and mercy meet at the cross. To deny eternal punishment minimizes both the seriousness of sin and the magnitude of Christ’s sacrifice.

Scripture Support for ECT:

• Romans 2:8 — “For those who are self‑seeking… there will be wrath and fury.”
• Hebrews 10:29 — “How much worse punishment… for the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God.”
• Revelation 20:15 — “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

Takeaway:
God’s mercy is magnified by the cross, where Christ bore eternal wrath for sinners. Those who reject Him face eternal punishment. Far from misrepresenting God’s character, ECT reveals both His holiness and His mercy—His holiness in judging sin eternally, and His mercy in offering salvation through Christ.

Final argument:

Although this is not an Annihilationist argument, it is critical to note the reaction of Kirt Cameron at the end of the Podcast, he stated

“This is such a great relief, to someone like me.  I don’t want to believe, in conscious eternal torment, for any buddy no matter how wicked they are.  If Scriptures taught it I would believe it, because it is the word of God.  But if it doesn’t teach that, we are severely misrepresenting the Character of God.”   

While I appreciate the sincerity behind Kirk Cameron’s statement, the danger lies in allowing our personal desires to shape our theology rather than letting Scripture speak for itself. The Bible does not bend to what I want to believe; it confronts me with what is true.

If we begin to dismiss the reality of conscious eternal torment simply because it feels uncomfortable, we risk unraveling much of the fabric of Christian doctrine:

• The seriousness of sin: If eternal judgment is softened or denied, sin itself is minimized. The cross becomes less about rescue from wrath and more about moral inspiration.
• The necessity of Christ’s sacrifice: Jesus endured the full weight of God’s judgment on our behalf. If eternal punishment is not real, then the depth of His suffering and the magnitude of His gift are diminished.
• The urgency of the gospel: If hell is not eternal conscious torment, then evangelism loses its gravity. The call to repentance becomes optional rather than essential.
• The character of God: Ironically, trying to protect God’s character by denying eternal judgment misrepresents Him. Scripture reveals both His perfect love and His perfect justice. To deny one is to distort the other.

The truth is that Scripture consistently teaches eternal separation and conscious punishment for those who reject Christ (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:11). Whether I want to believe it or not is irrelevant. My desires do not define reality; God’s Word does.

The gospel is only “good news” because the bad news is real.

Conclusion

The debate between Annihilationism and Eternal Conscious Torment is not a trivial matter. It touches the holiness of God, the seriousness of sin, and the urgency of the gospel. While brothers and sisters in Christ may disagree on this doctrine, we must remember that disagreement does not mean division. We are called to speak the truth in love, to listen with humility, and to engage one another with kindness and respect.

At the same time, we cannot afford to be careless with eternal realities. Misunderstanding the doctrine of hell can diminish the weight of sin, the glory of God’s holiness, and the magnitude of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Scripture compels us to handle these truths with reverence and precision.

So let us be willing to talk, to ask questions, and to wrestle honestly with God’s Word. But let us also feel the urgency to get biblical doctrine right—for the sake of our own faith, for the clarity of our witness, and for the eternal destiny of those who hear the gospel. Kindness and conviction must walk hand in hand: we love those who differ, but we hold fast to the truth that eternity is real, judgment is certain, and salvation in Christ is our only hope.